The Do Good Team Podcast
A podcast where we highlight nonprofits and charitable causes with the goal of improving your life and those around you through inspiration and creating meaningful connections. Together, we'll do some good and spread some love.
The Do Good Team Podcast
Episode 7 - Pets for Vets: A New Leash of Life for Veterans
You won't believe the story behind Nora's viral moment at Not Scary Farm, all thanks to her brother-in-law Gabriel's antics and her niece Erin's unwitting inspiration. We've got laughs, a few scares, and the perfect example of how life's unexpected moments make the best memories. Also, find out how we've tapped into the AI power of Chat GPT to boost our podcast downloads and streamline our social media – it's been a game changer!
But this episode isn't just about the fun and games. We're joined by the incredible Lindsay Wood, a certified associate applied animal behaviorist who's making a real difference with her work at Pets for Vets. Lindsay takes us on a journey through her remarkable career, sharing how her skills and passion are helping to match shelter animals with veterans in need of companionship and emotional support. Prepare to be moved as Lindsay recounts stories of lives changed forever through the bond between veterans and their animal companions.
We also dive into the many ways you can support Pets for Vets and contribute to this amazing cause. If you're a student considering a career in animal behavior, Lindsay's insights into the field and the opportunities available to you are must-listen material. As we wrap up, we extend our heartfelt gratitude to you, our listeners, for your continued support. Share this episode with the veterans in your life and help us spread the word about the fantastic work Pets for Vets is doing. Stay tuned till the end for an exciting coffee competition update you won't want to miss!
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Hello everyone, this is David from the Do Good Team podcast. Almost every individual we have interviewed for this podcast has mentioned the importance of spreading awareness of their causes. Thus, we have one specific call to action for you If you're listening to this episode, please share it with just one other person. That's all you need to do. You never know if the person you share it with needs the resources made available through these nonprofits, or know someone that does. Maybe the opportunity to connect with like-minded people will uplift their spirits, or just maybe you'll start a new way of support that makes substantive positive change in your community. Either way, you'll be doing some good and spreading some love in the most important way possible Spreading awareness. Thank you, and on to our episode.
Speaker 2:You're listening to episode seven of the Do Good Team podcast, a discussion on supporting shelter animals and veterans with pets for vets.
Speaker 1:Hello Do Gooders out there, Thank you so much for listening to another episode of the Do Good Team podcast, a podcast where we highlight nonprofits and charitable causes with the goal of improving your life and those around you through inspiration and creating meaningful connections. I am one of your hosts, David.
Speaker 2:Hello everybody, and I am your second host, nora.
Speaker 1:And it's good to be back everybody with another episode, and we're really excited that we seem to be on a regular posting schedule at this point and I think because of that, we're seeing a nice uptick in our downloads. Nora and I have been watching our Buzz Sprout feed, which is the program that we use to upload our episodes, and we're just noticing a consistent amount of downloads across multiple platforms. So I wanted to mention that because I just wanted to express my gratitude for everybody who's been supporting us. We're, you know, a new podcast, we're trying to get the word out and it's just really nice to see that consistent download. So thank you everybody.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank you so much everyone. We also want to kind of share another one of our strategies that we've been using for this last post, maybe the last two posts or episodes that we have shared. So we have been tapping into the world of chat GPT. We've been using it for some of our social media posts, especially when it comes to using hashtags. I've never really understood how using a hashtag is helpful or what it helps, what kind of world it helps open up for different posts, but we've been using it and it's pretty neat because one of our posts what number of contacts do you think it's reached so far? David, I think that last time I checked it was at least 78 people had liked the post.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's about 70.
Speaker 2:About 70, which is crazy for us. Usually we do not get that number of people connecting or interacting with our posts. So chat, gpt, we love you and we're going to keep using you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's been a really good tool for us, and it saves a lot of time too, so I've been pretty happy with it.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Alrighty, some interesting things have happened since we last talked to you all. Nora, do you want to share your story about how you went viral?
Speaker 2:Sure, why not? This is thanks to my brother-in-law, Gabriel. Shout out to Gabriel.
Speaker 1:So my shout out oh sorry, I interrupted you. I'm sorry.
Speaker 2:You did. Who's telling the story, me or you?
Speaker 1:Shut up.
Speaker 2:So we, david and I, attended Not Scary Farm and this year we happened to run into my brother-in-law and my wonderful sister-in-law, nikki, and we were having dinner. We were I can't remember the name of the place, but anyways. So you have dinner and then you have these event monsters coming in and trying to catch you off guard and scaring you the most that they can. And so, you know, we were in the middle of a very important conversation because we were talking about my wonderful and lovely niece, erin's birthday, and so I was very engaged in conversation. You know, anytime we're talking about Erin, I get lost. I love my niece.
Speaker 2:So we were talking about the plans for her birthday party because it was going to be coming up and I didn't not even notice that Gabriel was recording me.
Speaker 2:You know, I thought that he was like taking pictures of whatever that event around or that he was just holding his phone. Funny, and apparently this whole time there's a monster that sat next to me and was getting bored because I didn't notice it and it was trying to scare me. But I was way too distracted and engaged talking about my niece and, you know, when I least expected it, I turned around to the side because I started to notice that there was something odd going on, because it got really quiet and Nikki, my brother-in-law, and David were kind of like paying too much attention to me, which was odd and strange. And I looked to my side and I see the monster and didn't expect it and my fork went flying in. I did a little yell because obviously I was surprised, I was not expecting it. I was very engaged in a better conversation and Gabriel recorded this. My brother-in-law is an amazing video editor and made it into a wonderful video that he then shared and it became mini viral.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're more famous from that. From this podcast you have almost a million views from your fork-throwing. Surprised reaction.
Speaker 2:I know it's like, how could I even get upset? You know, my Gabriel asked are you okay if I share the video? I mean, how could I say no Like? First of all, I've learned to laugh at myself, which is something that I think in the past was really hard for me to do, but second of all, it was all in good fun and I got to give it to him. He totally did not like give me any hints that there was anything going on. And, Erin, this is just because of you. You know, I love you so much that I lose my focus when I'm talking about you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and Gabriel's a really good editor and he was filming it because he and Nikki, my sister-in-law, have a podcast of their own called the Theme Park Duo, so they do a lot of theme park interviews. They do a lot of reviews of different events and not scary farm. Halloween is their favorite time of year, so they invite us and it's just a ton of fun. So, but we wanted to share that little story about how Nora got famous over the past month. Good job, nora. Lots of people know you from throwing us food.
Speaker 2:I know you're very lucky You're married to a very famous person.
Speaker 1:I know, I know, alrighty.
Speaker 1:The only other update that I want to share with everybody is that I started my own law firm, which is pretty exciting, I know, thank you, I wouldn't be able to do it without the support of Nora here, but I wanted to share that with everybody because one of the reasons why I started my own law firm was because of and I might have shared this story before with everybody, but I really wanted to practice law the way that I want to practice, and that's with love, and some of the reasons why we started this podcast, which is spreading more love into the world.
Speaker 1:And the story that I wanted to share was that back in 2009, I was sitting down at a law conference and there was this tribal court judge who was talking about practicing law from the, from the bench, with love.
Speaker 1:And 2009, david could not figure out what in the world she was talking about, because they don't talk about love in law school, and what I really figured out in my practice with tribal communities is that you can't really be successful unless you love the community and actually become part of the community and develop community. So I really got to understand what she was talking about as I engaged more with the community and really understood how I needed to be successful working with underrepresented groups, so I wanted to share that with everybody, just because it's given me the opportunity to have my own law firm to really do what we're talking about in this podcast, which is engaging communities and really trying to find where we could be or express our love in meaningful ways, you know, in the world around us. So I'm pretty excited about that and I can't wait to get more updates as this continues to grow. It's only been about a few months, but so far so good.
Speaker 2:Yes, we are super proud of David. We're very excited to continue to see the work that he does. It's super fun to hear and, more than anything, it's just a very big source of inspiration and motivation and pride. So good job, david.
Speaker 1:Thank you, love. I couldn't do it without you. But enough talking about our. You know your fame and my law firm. We got to get into pets for vets, which we're really excited to talk to everybody about today. So take it away, sweetheart.
Speaker 2:So for this episode we had the pleasure of interviewing Lindsay Woods. She is the national program manager for pets for vets. So pets for vets was created to improve the lives of both veterans and animals by bringing them together in a thoughtful, caring way. The goal of the organization is to give back to the brave servicemen and women who have been giving everything to our country while finding homes for these very deserving shelter pets. What they do is they work to match the right pet with the right veteran.
Speaker 2:So shelter animals here they have an opportunity to have a second chance at life and in a different but similar way so do veterans. Veterans have an opportunity to receive a second chance at health and happiness. Kind of like giving a little bit of background about Lindsay. The official title that she has is a certified applied animal behaviorist, so she has a background in psychology, in animal behavior she mentions conditioning is a big part of the work that they do. It's just such a wonderful process where she gets an opportunity to share with us, like the changes and the connection that is built and seen in the lives of both the animal and the vet.
Speaker 1:I was going to say. One of the cool things that Lindsay talks about is that there's only about 60 certified applied animal behaviorists in the US, so she's one of 60 and hearing her talk there's an opportunity to talk, to hear from a specialist where there's not really many in the field.
Speaker 2:Exactly. So this really tells us like both for anybody that's interested in trying to understand, like what the career looks like. Also understanding that the type of opportunity that has been developed by pets for vets is a very, very, very unique and rare one. So we are so excited to be able to have an opportunity to get some deep and unique insight as to the work that is being done through pets for vets. So a little bit of information for you. According to the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals website, each year approximately 920,000 shelter animals are euthanized. So, david, would you like to share with us a little bit about veteran statistics and how that connects to this topic?
Speaker 1:Yeah, according to the US Department of Veteran Affairs, one study found that among veterans using Veteran Affairs care, 23 out of every 100 veterans had PTSD at some point in their lives, compared to about seven out of every 100 of veterans who did not use the VA for healthcare. But the great thing that Lindsay talks about is that some of the mental health issues that our veterans face are more complex than that. That's not the only thing that they face. She talks about how these shelter animals that are paired with them. They handle things as common as loneliness. So it's a really wonderful program. It's really robust, and in the interview I say that the program is extremely flexible in terms of what it's able to do and kind of fill gaps in the healthcare that our veterans face.
Speaker 2:Well, I think we could definitely keep talking about this topic for hours, but I think that our audience is ready to stop hearing us and start listening to Lindsay.
Speaker 1:Alrighty, everybody, bugle up for the interview and we'll see you on the other side.
Speaker 2:See you all too.
Speaker 1:Hey everyone, as you heard at the top of the show, we have with us today and we're very excited to have with us today Lindsay Wood, the National Program Manager for Pets, for Vets. Lindsay, thanks so much for joining us today. We're really excited to have you.
Speaker 3:Well, thank you, I'm happy to be here.
Speaker 1:Why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself and the work that you do for Pets, for Vets?
Speaker 3:So I guess I probably do have a little bit of a unique background. I am currently a certified associate applied animal behaviorist and I have spent really the bulk of my career working for animal shelters in a behavioral capacity, developing behavior programs for them and working directly with shelter dogs and shelters as clients. I currently also consult for shelters and I left the kind of day-to-day life of sheltering several years ago when I moved back to Virginia and now I kind of get to do a lot of neat things and several months ago I just started working for Pets, for Vets, as their national program manager. So that's been a different experience for me, but it really kind of combines my career in behavior and in working with shelter animals and working for people and kind of, you know, broadens it and really gives me this you know, kind of new purpose which I think feels good for me right now.
Speaker 2:Thank, you so much. Lindsay, can you maybe share with us a little bit, with our audience, for those who maybe are not familiar with what kind of work and what is like some of the objectives of working as an animal behaviorist?
Speaker 3:Sure, that's a great question For the certified animal behaviorist out there. There's probably only 50 or so of us nationally and we're all kind of in different areas. There are some of us who work for shelters or consult for shelters. There are many who are in academia, there are many who work with private clients and you know, kind of the common denominator there is we are all attempting to help people who have an animal with some sort of challenge behaviorally and our goal is to help them resolve that to a place where they, you know, are able to live together quite harmoniously and, you know, support that client with the kind of different needs of that animal. So how do we manage whatever the behavior problem is and how do we begin to intervene in that behavior problem with some real positive reinforcement, science-based strategies for modification of that behavior?
Speaker 2:Thank you, and do you mind sharing with us how that work directly connects with Pets for Vets, sure.
Speaker 3:I think the neat thing about it for me is that Pets for Vets is really designed to support people, specifically veterans and shelter animals. So the idea behind it and the goal behind the organization it's a nonprofit organization that is matching shelter animals with veterans who really are in need of a companion animal and I think you know the pieces that really have been exciting for me and hopefully beneficial for the organization are my, you know behavioral expertise. So my ability to get to know shelter animals, my experience with clients as well and also my experience assessing animals in the shelter, being able to read behavior, to develop curriculum as well, supporting. There's my pup hey, pup-ups. That's Sonnet.
Speaker 3:He's my little two-year-old guy and someone's at the window so he's really excited about the work that's behind it. He's quite quiet most of the time until he isn't and then he's quite loud but really adorable. I wish you could actually see him. So I'm not sure where I was exactly, but I think it was talking about those pieces of you know being a certified behaviorist and how it can hopefully support pets for vets and it's really that you know using my behavioral expertise to help our founder, clarissa Black, you know, develop the programs that she's developing for the trainers that support us and support veterans and, you know, help them develop relationships with other shelters and really get a look at how we read behavior in shelter animals and how we teach that to our traders. He has much to say over here.
Speaker 2:Very much so.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think Sonnet sounds fine. He's coming in clear. We don't need to check his microphone, he's good.
Speaker 3:Hey, did you hear that You're coming in there? Clear.
Speaker 1:Go ahead, love, you were going to ask a question.
Speaker 2:Oh, I was going to ask about how you came about with Sonnet's name.
Speaker 3:Oh, that's a great question, sonnet's name. There's just so many pieces to that. I think I love the name, I like the word Sonnet, I enjoy poetry. He's also, you know, shakespeare's Sonnets. Shakespeare actually spoke about the Icelandic sheepdog in one of his plays and this breed is an ancient breed so they've been around for so long that they actually show up in Shakespeare's writing. I like the softness of the names on it and I like that. It's unique and I think it fits him.
Speaker 2:That's a beautiful story for how Sonnet got their name. We are definitely going to need to get a photo of you so we can share, so we ourselves can see what Sonnet looks like and our audience can see Sonnet as well.
Speaker 3:Yes, I will definitely give you one. He's a beautiful little guy.
Speaker 1:Noisy but beautiful. What's interesting to me about some of the things you just mentioned is the science behind animal behavior and you matching the correct animal if correct is the right word, or maybe the best fit for a veteran. Can you talk about that process a little bit more, because I think a lot of times, including myself before I started doing some research, I thought the process was a little bit more straightforward. A veteran who's suffering from PTSD needs a support animal. Maybe it's something else besides PTSD, but then you just match them with an animal. That would be generally a good fit, but it's much more complicated than that. So there's a lot of, like you said, science and a lot of work that you do, and I would love for you to jump in about what that actually looks like.
Speaker 3:Yes, I agree. I think that it is more nuanced than we initially think, and one of the things that really interested me about this position and about Pet's For Vets as an organization is that I had known the founder, clarissa Black, for several years and was really impressed with what she had managed to create and grow with this organization, and the more I kind of explored it and spoke with her about it, the more impressed I became with her abilities and her care, I think, for both the shelter animals and the veterans that she was supporting, and that, clarissa, really she didn't subscribe to this one-size-fits-all approach. It was much more in-depth, much more nuanced and really built on this kind of superpower that she has to get to know a veteran and get to know an animal really well and determine who is this animal right, who is this shelter dog and what do they have to offer? And is what that animal has to offer what this veteran is looking for? So is the veteran going to find that this dog is able to help him meet his needs? Is this dog going to mitigate loneliness in the way that he really needs at that time?
Speaker 3:And I think those are the things that I really found so impressive and so unique about Pet's For Vets, and it's still kind of what I'm impressed by on a daily basis when we talk about the assessment procedures, and it's not recipe-driven, it's really about getting to know that animal so well. Sure, there is an assessment tool that we can use to help support, but it's really being able to read the behavior, understand what that animal is likely to offer in a variety of conditions, and are those things the things that this veteran really needs? Are they going to be able to form quickly what Clarissa has created, which is this idea of a super bond, so that she has matched them so well that they have this kind of immediate connection and, as their relationship continues to grow, they know what the other is thinking. They can support each other in a variety of conditions, in a variety of ways?
Speaker 2:Lindsay, is there a set of guidelines or recommendations for when a veteran or what kind of conditions will best result in this match happening with a veteran and a shelter dog? Like for any of the veterans listening or family members of veterans that are listening and are interested in potentially connecting their veterans to a program of yours? What essentially would we be looking for in a veteran that could be eligible for this program?
Speaker 3:I think that this program is really designed to support veterans who have any type of condition. That condition could be something as simple as just loneliness, or it could be a medical diagnosis of PTSD or anxiety or traumatic brain injury. So I think this program is designed to meet the needs of a variety of needs. So it's anything from as simple as the condition of loneliness to that medical diagnosis. What pets for vets is able to provide is that shelter animal. Most of the times it's a dog, it could be a cat. We've placed a rabbit. We've set veterans up with robotic animals, so a robotic dog or a robotic cat, and I think that's one of the things that's so neat about pets for vets it's not a specific medical condition, it's any sort of condition in which an animal may be able to support their mental health.
Speaker 2:And I love how it's a variety of different animals and robotic animals, because sometimes we forget about things like allergies or other medical conditions that make it difficult to have an animal in the home and there's still this wonderful opportunity with the robotic animals to have that. You said it beautifully. You said bond. What did you refer it to?
Speaker 1:Super bond.
Speaker 2:Super bond yes, to still develop this beautiful super bond between veterans and a robotic animal.
Speaker 3:Yes, and I think that's what Clarissa has done so well is she has really focused on the super bond and how she uses her superpowers of being able to get to know the animal and get to know the person, and she figures out the superpowers of each of the animal itself and the person and that who eats that super bond. I love that Me too, I really do. And the you know the robotic animals piece I I Find really interesting as well because, like you said there, you know there are a variety of people out there who really may benefit from having a pet, but for Some of the reasons allergies or just that inability to provide the care necessary a Robotic dog or cat gives them that opportunity to still experience all of the benefits. And Clare's and I were talking just the other day about this and some Research that she was sharing with me that I, you know, on a personal level, completely related to.
Speaker 3:It's that idea that sometimes just being part of a community right also makes a huge difference and that's, for vets, is very much a community Right. So the, the veterans, become family to us, right, and that's a huge reinforcer for our trainers as well. They, you know they perform these matches the, the veterans become like family. They're getting, you know, wedding invitations from them and text messages about how great the, the animals are doing. So it's, it's this beautiful community that is being built, and I think that you know that the opportunity to be part of a community and have that support system, being able to provide that to Veterans who have a robotic dog or the robotic cat right like it's just I Think that makes a big difference in their lives, that community feel, and that can certainly help mitigate loneliness as well. So I think there's really something interesting to that and you know there is some research to support that the opportunity to be part of any community is going to enhance mental health.
Speaker 1:I love the flexibility that Pets for vets is conveying, yet anything from robotic animals rabbits, cats, dogs and then anything from a veteran feeling lonely and loneliness all the way to a, an actual medical diagnosis. So it seems to me that pets for vets is maybe, maybe, filling a void and you can maybe elaborate on this that the, the medical field or maybe health insurance is not able to fill For veterans in need. It really seems like you're really able to capture a lot with the flexibility that Normal health insurance in the medical world cannot fill.
Speaker 3:Yes, I think that you know what pets for vets provides. Is this Opportunity for I? I guess I would call adjunct or supplemental support, that that you know, in addition to whatever therapies or intervention the veteran may be receiving.
Speaker 2:This is, you know this could really enhance that do you have a Lindsay, any stories that you've had an opportunity to hear of or be a part of in your time with pets for vets, where, like you've had Like success story and you know success just again, very similar to our conversation just a couple of minutes ago, can be very diverse and look very different pets or vets has done?
Speaker 3:over 600 matches so far and there are some really lovely ones to read about on the website and to see on the website as well.
Speaker 3:There there's one Veteran named Adam and his dog, ruckus on, and you know I've heard Clarissa talk about this match and we Gave me, you know that permission to share it with you all as well.
Speaker 3:And Adam was a young veteran who really felt like he lost his heart and his soul in Iraq and he started to develop these coping mechanisms that were Somewhat anger based and he didn't, you know, he didn't wish to Perform those behaviors right.
Speaker 3:He was looking for something else. And he found Clarissa and you know, let her know that he was trying to get away from these feelings and you know, but before he caught her he was at this point where he wasn't sure if he was going to get a dog or if he was going to get a gun, and he knew that, you know, one of those was going to perpetuate the behaviors that he did not wish to continue in the coping mechanisms that he was really looking to get out of. And so he reached out to Clarissa and at first he thought that he wanted a German shepherd. He wanted the like big dog with the pointy ears and you know all of those kind of you know feelings that come along with when you see a German shepherd, and what Clarissa realized from getting to know Adam is such a big part of.
Speaker 3:Clarissa's. You know her superpower right is getting to know the person so well, and what she really realized was that what he needed in a dog was a dog that was so tuned into him that he could kind of see the world through the dog's eyes. Oh wow.
Speaker 2:You know, pay attention to how does this dog Look at him, right?
Speaker 3:can he see? How does he see himself through the dog's eyes? How does the dog look at other People? Right? So it would help him to look at other people.
Speaker 3:With that same, with those feelings, and when Clarissa went to the shelter and was looking for the dog for him, she met Rakhazan, and he was not a German shepherd but he did have pointy ears, was so incredibly kind of tuned into the shelter staff that were working with him and he could tell like the shelter staff was like For me to sit before they open the kennel or they're tossing the treat back here so I should move back here, or every time I go to eat this treat, this door shuts.
Speaker 3:So let me just sit here for a moment and maybe the store will open. Like he was able to just figure out what the shelter staff was looking for, even though the shelter stuff wasn't quick, doing the training exactly right at that moment. And what Clarissa realized from watching all of that was when he was looking for the dog. What Clarissa realized from watching all of that was wow, this is, this is a highly attuned animal to people and their needs, and so she matched them up and you know Adam said on that that match day, like Initially he told her later actually wasn't the German shepherd right, but actually was everything I wanted.
Speaker 1:Oh.
Speaker 3:There are some lovely quotes on our website from him, but you know you can certainly read them, but really kind of the gist of it is he was able to experience love again by looking through Rock-a-Zon's eyes, by watching how Rock-a-Zon approached the world and the way Rock-a-Zon looked at him, right like he could see who he was based on the way the dog cared for him and looked at him, and I just think that that is a you know kind of an Ridley lovely story and I think one of the quotes in there is something about how we are one person. Right when people see us, adam said they think Adam and Rock-a-Zon, we are one.
Speaker 2:That this is just such a beautiful story and I think it really kind of summarizes the impact of pets for vets. That the impact is so I don't even have words, for it is so so Enormous that it changes a person's life. You know that this match of like finding the Right animal for an individual is an opportunity for a better life, is an opportunity to enjoy life, an opportunity to obviously still navigate life's challenges but be able to see it in a different lens, in a different perspective, just like, literally, the story of Adam and Rock-a-Zon shows us what, what an amazing story and just what a beautiful summary to what the program does. So a question that I have for you is it like for individuals interested in participating or volunteering in some way or Getting connected to support pets for vets, like, is there a specific location or is this a program that is available nationwide? Or how is the program structured in terms of how it offers its services?
Speaker 3:That's a great question too. Yes, the program has expanded. It's not just in one location. If there is a veteran who is interested, then they can go onto our website and see if we have a trainer who is serving their area at this time and then reach out to us directly through the website. Similarly, you know, we, our trainers, are the ones out there all over the country right who are Getting to know the veteran, going out to the shelters, taking the time to find the right shelter dog for that veteran and you know, once they do all of that, they're also Providing positive reinforcement training to that dog as well. So what the veteran you know receives is this dog who has been carefully selected for them so that they will form the super bond and also, really, kind of the icing on the cake is we have provided training that is really specific To what that veteran may need as well.
Speaker 2:And I have a selfish question to ask, and I mean selfish because I'm gonna throw in my previous role as a career advisor on a university campus. So right now I'm doing academic advising, but when I was doing career advising at Cal Poly, humboldt, there are so many students, so so many students that are majoring in zoology or are interested in Working with animals in some way. Can you maybe share with us, lindsay, a little bit of like for those students that are interested in Potentially pursuing a career, because this is a very unique Experience that many of us have not heard of as an opportunity of a career path. What kind of experience? How did you get to where you're at today doing this amazing job? I?
Speaker 3:Love that question. Okay, so I, yes, there are all their opportunities and I always love it. Like what I hear, that there you know other college students looking for that. How do I? How do I do this? Right, I'll share mine.
Speaker 3:When I was in college, I Always knew I wanted to work with animals, but didn't really see that path in front of me. I had this kind of pipe dream since I was younger that I wish to be a dolphin trainer, and I was in. So I decided to major in biology in college just because maybe that would get me there. And I I Was in a lab, a bio lab, and there was a another student in that lab and she was wearing a t-shirt that said dolphin research center, and I said, what is that? And she told me, and so I applied for an internship there and that's how I got my foot in the door in the field. I was a dolphin trainer for many years and then I Left there to Get my graduate degree.
Speaker 3:I have my master's degree. I got that at Hunter College in New York City, so they offer a really neat animal behavior and conservation master's program, and After that I started working in shelters. So I, you know, transitioned away from the exotic animals to the domestic side of it. There are many different paths to get there right. That just happened to be mine, you know. I think that majoring in biology, zoology, psychology, those are really great opportunities. My, you know, my graduate degree is animal behavior, but it really was a psych degree with a concentration in animal behavior. So any of those kind of you know, academic paths can help you kind of find that that way. In Looking for internships in zoos or like I did at dolphin research center, the, that's a really nice option as well and and it also really helps you decide like, do you really like this? You know it's it's hard. It's hard physical labor and your dolphin trainer or a zookeeper.
Speaker 2:So would you say, lindsay, that gaining, like some experience, like volunteering, like at a pet, like at an animal shelter or anywhere where you have an opportunity to interact with animals, is a good idea? Just to make sure that you you're happy with both the positive and the negatives of any job Before getting into it, really getting into it, I yes, I think so.
Speaker 3:I think those volunteer internship positions are really beneficial, and there are a lot of internship positions in the domestic area too, so look for your animal shelters or some of the national animal shelters that have opportunities as well, and if you really wish to be a trainer an animal trainer there are some great options out there to become certified as a dog trainer. I worked for Karen Pryor Academy and a faculty member for them as well, and they really do a lovely job of teaching their students and helping to develop their skills so that they can become certified trainers using positive reinforcement.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for sharing your path and I'm sorry I hijacked the conversation, but I could not lose the opportunity in getting that information from you for our students, because I'm definitely gonna be sharing this episode with the College of Natural Resources and Sciences at Cal Poly Humboldt, so our students have an opportunity to hear about your career path and the work that you're doing, just so they're more aware of the opportunities that are out there. And can you mention your graduate program one more time for us, because that is one area where we often get our students asking like well, how do I find the right graduate program? And the program that you mentioned is such a niche that I definitely wanna make sure that they know that this program is one that they can look into.
Speaker 3:Yes, it was Hunter College in New York City, manhattan, and the program was the Animal Behavior and Conservation in the wild and captivity or something, but there was a lengthy name to it. It was the ABS program. Thank you so much. It was in the psych department.
Speaker 1:There was no hijacking there at all, Norak, because one of the things that we tried to do with this podcast is create awareness about how people can help in really unique ways, Cause when we talk to the nonprofits, including pets for events, the same two things always pop up with any nonprofit it's volunteer and donate, but we like to think of things that are a little bit outside the box how else and if you can align your potential career path with something like pets for events. I mean, that's an incredible way to not only do something fulfilling but make a real impact in the world and, as we heard, there's only I think you said about 50 certified applied animal behaviorist, Correct Lindsay.
Speaker 3:Yes, I think so. There's 50 to 60 maybe of us now that's a small number.
Speaker 1:So for any student listening you could be number 61.
Speaker 2:Yes, and I mean just from this conversation, you all can't see Lindsay, but we can, and you can tell the passion and the love and like the joy that you have for your career and for what you do. I mean there is nothing that is more valuable than that Finding work that aligns with your values, with what you love, with what you're excited and passionate about.
Speaker 3:I agree, and that's not easy, right, finding that work that gives you a sense of purpose, right and aligns with your values, and that's a big deal and I've been fortunate.
Speaker 1:And there's something very special about helping veterans.
Speaker 3:Yes, there really is right, because then it's that continued sense of purpose for me too right. I've had different. My career is. I've done different things previously in shelters since the purposes of helping those shelter animals, and now I've expanded that, I've broadened it. It's helping the shelter animals, they're getting that second chance and it's also helping veterans who are in need.
Speaker 2:You had mentioned about the match process, that the trainer will go to various shelters, more or less like how. What would be the range that you would say like that it can take for getting a match?
Speaker 3:Sure, I think once the trainer first is going to get to know the veteran quite well, to really identify the needs of the veteran, and then the trainer will go into the shelters and begin to find the potential candidate dogs, and that can take a few months to find that right dog for that specific person. And I think so it's quality.
Speaker 2:Awesome, and I had another question, kind of still a little bit about that process. So what has it been like for you, as the person that is making that connection, being present on that match day?
Speaker 3:Well, I'm still new to the organization so I have not been in a match day myself because I'm still just learning all of the pieces and helping develop those pieces that I have expertise in. So I have only seen. I've seen videos, I've had an opportunity to watch and I've had an opportunity just to hear from those trainers who have done matches and I think the pieces there. It's listening to Clarissa tell me those skills right, those things that were so meaningful to her. It's the veteran who, on match day there was such an immediate super bond formed with his new companion dog that he, right there with everyone around, just lied down and she laid on him and he was able to take a nap. That's beautiful.
Speaker 1:So it's those things.
Speaker 3:It was such an important and beneficial thing for this person immediately that they were able to rest.
Speaker 2:I think that you just gave us the perfect description for what it would be to witness it Like just a sense of fulfillment, a sense of like, okay, all this work that we've been doing to get to this point, even for the veteran themselves, like, okay, everything that has happened in their lives up until that point has culminated in this moment of just trying to get to the point of just joy and serenity and change for their life. Thank you for sharing that.
Speaker 3:Absolutely, I think I agree, it's that moment where that match is so successful and you realize this is what the super bond looks like. It looks like this veteran being able to close his eyes and rest for a minute, no matter who's around, because this dog has provided that immediately, because the match was so well done. It looks like, you know, for me I would think to myself that's what love looks like, right that moment, right there, where he can close his eyes and the dog has snuggled up and they've only just met.
Speaker 2:You know, I was gonna ask you earlier and I think that things always just happen very well when you don't try to interfere too much and I just didn't ask. I was gonna ask you if you could explain a little bit or give us a definition of what the super bond is.
Speaker 3:Yes, that super bond is the. It's that immediate connection right between the dog and the person, or the animal and the person that you know we're like with Adam and Rakhazan. They become one, right, and you know it's that the dog's superpowers, the veteran's superpowers, and you wrap it all up with love, right, and you have a super bond. One of the other things that I really appreciate about pets for vets is that what they provide their veterans is last through the lifetime of that pet. So anything that occurs, whether there's a medical problem that surfaces at some point in the animals life, pets for vets is there to support and help with all of those things. And it's just another, I think, example of the community right, example of the generosity of Clarissa and what she has created and the. You know the long-term commitment, the feeling of family. So I think that's really quite unique and meaningful.
Speaker 2:How long has that organization been in existence? I believe 14 years now. Oh wow, so it's been. That's amazing, that's great.
Speaker 3:It is, and, clarissa, I mean she built it herself and now it's grown and expanded and she's really created this lovely.
Speaker 2:You can tell that, clarissa, like it is so intentional in every decision that they make for the organization. I mean we can tell very clearly, you know, that they aim to hire the utmost quality, and I mean we can see that very clearly with you. So we're so excited that there's people out there doing this amazing work, especially for veterans, who definitely never get enough support. I mean I just think that with everything that's out there, there's just never enough to pay back veterans for how much they sacrifice personally, like health-wise, mental health-wise, I mean just in all ways.
Speaker 3:Yes, I agree, and this is, this is a lovely, this is a lovely thing that she has created.
Speaker 1:So how can the listeners who are listening into this episode to use a word we've been using create a super bond with pets or vets and support pets for vets?
Speaker 3:That's a great one. Well, I think the, you know, the primary thing is, of course, donations. We are a 501c3 and that is, you know, one of the most beneficial ways that you can support us. If you know, if we have listeners who are qualified trainers, qualified positive reinforcement trainers that wish to support us as well, then they could certainly, on our website, reach out to us and let us know if they're interested in, you know, maybe serving in their area.
Speaker 1:I think those are probably two primary ways that our listeners could help and, as usual, make sure we put the links to the website and the donation page in the description of this podcast so everybody listening in you can find them easily by looking into the description. So the last question, the most important question of all Lindsay, what is your definition of love?
Speaker 3:I did not prepare this and I should have prepared this. My definition of love, it's such a. It's such a great question and I know we chatted once before and I was surprised and kind of pleased by that question. And the reason is because that is a question that I ask myself frequently and here's gonna, you know, here's kind of the background there. I have a very dear mentor in this field. Her name is Dr Susan Friedman anda.
Speaker 3:Couple years ago I was stomping my feet about some behavioral thing and something that I you know as a behaviorist. I wanted my dog to love some problem stimulus, some problem event. Right, I was really focused on my dog at the time. She needed to love it. And Dr Friedman looked at me and she said me too what does love look like? And it has stuck with me almost every day and in a variety of ways I think about this question. I'm a mom of two little girls and there are many times where I ask myself, okay, what, what does love look like and what can I do to teach them what love looks like? And and I'm a behaviorist, right so love is this like ambiguous term and you know it's really hard to define. But as a behaviorist and, with my mentors, help. What I have figured out is that for me, with my behavior lens, love looks like observable behaviors, and some of those observable behaviors I can really reinforce with positive reinforcement, whether it's my dog or it's my child. And you know, for example, when one daughter stubs her toe right and or falls off her bike which happened recently, you know the other one is running to get an ice pack or the first-aid kit, right. That's what love looks like in that condition between my two little girls. I think with my dog right, love might look like, you know, I'm in it, he's not feeling well right now, and love looks like we're just sitting outside together and I, you know, we're watching the squirrels and maybe I'm offering him some food and maybe I'm not if he doesn't feel like eating, you know. So this question is something I think about often.
Speaker 3:I remember when the pandemic hit and my oldest daughter then she was only in second grade and suddenly she couldn't see her friends anymore, and so we'd go out here, into our front yard we live in the suburbs and her friends would come by and they'd stand in the streets so they could wave to each other and I remember looking at her. She was confused and I said, honey, this is what love looks like right now, this is what love looks like today. So that's, in a very long-winded way, my trying to say that I think my definition of love looks like observable behaviors that are reinforcing to the other person and reinforcing to that person. It's ways that we, you know, behaviors that we perform, that help and that we find positively reinforcing. That's probably what I love about pets for vets so much right is. I think that that is a big part of what Clarissa has developed in what I see here.
Speaker 3:It's the. What is this dog? Who is this dog? What do they have to offer? And this veteran what do they need? What does love look like to the veteran in that moment? Does he need the dog who is going to snuggle up against him? Is that what love looks like for this veteran? It might be. Where is it? Love looks like we go on long walks together, right? So what does it look like in terms of behaviors?
Speaker 2:I absolutely love your definition. I think that it really puts just everyday life and everyday moments into perspective that sometimes we lose sight of if we're not present, Like just those little observable behaviors like you mentioned. It really is leaving a lot for me.
Speaker 3:Me too, actually everyday that I remind myself to ask myself the question what does love look like today?
Speaker 1:Lindsay Wood, National Program Manager for Pets for Vets and Sonnet. Thank you so much for joining us today. Really appreciate your time.
Speaker 3:It was my pleasure, thank you.
Speaker 1:One of the cool things about having this podcast and this podcast for Noda and I is really a labor of love is getting to interview all these really interesting people, and Lindsay is one of the most fascinating because of her background in animal behavior. And, lindsay, if you're listening to this, thank you again for participating in our interview and all the work that you do for animals and for our veterans. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2:Yes, thank you so much, Lindsay. It has been a pleasure to have an opportunity to connect with you and learn about this amazing program.
Speaker 1:And thank you so much for Sonnet for adding your pithy comments about how much you disliked the UPS man.
Speaker 2:Yes, thank you, sonnet. We really loved your conversation as well. I think you were the star of this episode. So one thing that definitely stood out to me from this episode was just a reminder of the time that I have been working in the area of career advising how lucky we are to be able to connect with a field that we are passionate about and that gives us an opportunity to be of service. Having the opportunity to connect with Lindsay, I just cannot think of a better example of someone who has been able to take their passions and their commitment and love for working with animals and then being able to connect that further into serving and supporting vets.
Speaker 2:As you heard in the episode, I asked her for an opportunity to let us know how she got into her career, and I think that what I would like to just kind of highlight from this conversation is that we never know where our paths go and what kind of opportunity life springs our way.
Speaker 2:Lindsay, I think from the conversation, didn't know that this was a very specific path that they could explore and go into, and life connected her to all of those things that she needed to be able to be where she's at today. So anybody that had an opportunity to listen to our podcast. In addition to taking the wonderful work that the organization is doing, the philosophy and the service that is being given to those that really most deserve it in our country, also, remember to keep yourself present and connected to those experiences, all the experiences that life offers you, whether it's in a volunteer capacity, whether it's in an employment capacity or just everyday interaction with others, because we really don't know what kind of things will come our way that will give us an opportunity to connect to these things that are amazing for us.
Speaker 1:We're so lucky that you have that background, nora, and you're able to enlighten some of our listeners who are looking for a career path and how to help people trying to work in the community. Maybe they specifically want to help veterans and they don't know what they can do and this is a viable, wonderful career path and there's only 60 people in the US who do this, so it's not well known and we're just thankful that. I'm thankful that you have this background and you can shed light on this piece, because it would have never occurred to me to think about the career path part of this. For me, what stood out was that story about Adam and Raka San and I really enjoyed it. Adam, if you're listening to this, thank you so much for allowing Lindsay to share the story. I really love the story of healing and finding a dog partner. That maybe wasn't quite what you were expecting when a German shepherd, but, being another breed, it really kind of emphasizing that super bond and how important it is. The bond is the most important thing. I thought it was just a wonderful, loving story and, as Lindsay said, there's so many more of those stories on the Pets for Vets website, so we really encourage you to go visit that website.
Speaker 1:And, speaking of the website, you can help Pets for Vets by visiting their website. You could go to PetsforVetscom. You could also go to PetsforVetscom backslash donate if you wanna donate to them, and then, of course, the same website, petsforvetscom forward slash volunteer, if you want to volunteer and then, misspoke, the donate page is forward slash donate. It will put the links in the description of this podcast so you could just find them and not try to type this as you're listening to me, especially if you're driving, don't type while you're driving. But yeah, I think that's it for Pets for Vets. Is there anything that I missed? Or I think we covered it all.
Speaker 2:We got it.
Speaker 1:Alrighty, you wanna talk about our coffee competition.
Speaker 2:So the coffee competition has not been going quite like we expected. We have not had any reviews, unfortunately, other than the one review that we already had from a while back. The good thing is that we have gone a lot of likes on our posts, we've gone a lot of interaction with the posts, but not any direct feedback. So, david, what are we doing to make up for this?
Speaker 1:I don't know. Do we have a plan? We gotta get this coffee out.
Speaker 2:You said that you were extending it. You put it on the notes.
Speaker 1:Oh well, I write notes. How do you expect me to read the notes that I write?
Speaker 2:You put extended through end of November.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So what we're gonna do is we're going to extend the competition out through November. I think part of the issue is that we just didn't explain what we're trying to do clearly, cause we got a lot of reviews, just five star reviews without any description, and nobody let us know who did it. So we gotta increase the reviews, but no actual descriptions or feedback and we can't tell who left it. So we're gonna extend it out through the end of November.
Speaker 1:And if you're listening to this podcast and you didn't get to see our social media posts, this is what we're doing. We're giving away a bag of coffee from Black Coffee Northwest, which was our fifth interview episode. So if you haven't heard it, please listen to that episode. And if you leave us a comment, a review, a five star review, you enter yourself into winning that bag of coffee. It's a wonderful bag of coffee. We'll reach out to you once you leave that comment and we'll get your information so we can be able to send it to you, cause you know you don't wanna leave your personal information in the comment. So we'll reach out to you and we'll be able to get you your bag of coffee. So leave a five star review, make us laugh, make us cry, make it a wonderful comment and we'll announce our winner in our next episode.
Speaker 2:Yes, I mean, the coffee is amazing. It is wonderful. And just think about the payoff. You could write a one sentence review and get a coffee bag of really high quality and pretty good monetary value. So one sentence, one bag of wonderful coffee. Think about it.
Speaker 1:Alrighty, everybody, we're getting to that part of the episode where we're kind of winding down, so just leaving you with a couple different things that we usually do. If you do anything at all, please share this episode with at least one person. That is our call to action right now, especially with this episode. You know Veterans Day is right around the corner. This is being recorded in November. If you find a veteran in your life, or you a veterans family member, this would be a great episode to share with them. So please do share it. But if you're feeling generous and you wanna do a little bit more, leave a five star review.
Speaker 1:We just mentioned that you could be entering yourself into a competition to win a free bag of wonderful coffee from Black Coffee Northwest. And if you wanted to even do just a little bit more, you can email us directly at the dogoodteam at gmailcom. Leave us some feedback. We would love to hear from you, even if you just wanna chat with us, especially for our listeners in Germany who still haven't reached out to us. I'm still fascinated by the sense that we have such a burgeoning you know listening base out in Germany. I don't know how that happened. I don't know why that happened. But if you're listening over there, friends in Germany, contact us. We would love, love, love to hear from you. And you know, if you just do one of those things, share the episode with just one other person.
Speaker 2:Yes, and thank you since, David, thank you for highlighting the importance of this upcoming month for our veterans. Like I think that one important thing to take away is that there's programs like Pets for Vets that really are mindful and thankful and doing as much as they can for our vets who have sacrificed so much of themselves, of their families, for the benefit of our country. So, to all of those veterans out there, we thank you for your service and know that there are many individuals out there that don't just want to say thank you, that they are, you know, creating and providing support and services through programs such as Pets for Vets.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much, nora, for taking the time to thank our veterans. We're so appreciative of you and thank you for everything that you've done for this country. And wrapping up the previous conversation about emailing us, the other thing that you could do, too, if you email us, is let us know about other non-profits and charitable causes that just may not be in our radar. Nora and I were cooler than a cucumber in a bowl of hot sauce. We're two cool cats. We love interviewing people and the people we interview seem to have a good time. So connect us with different, you know nonprofits. We would love to take a look and you might be, you know an impetus behind a new episode. So we're at the closing. We got dogs barking in the background. I don't know if that's showing up right now. I guess that's our cue to go. So don't forget everybody to do some good and spread some love out there and remember juntos somos un buen equipo.
Speaker 1:Together we're a good team. Thanks everybody and listen for the next episode. Take care.
Speaker 2:Take care everybody.